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YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE SUSPENDED! (2 Viewers)

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dgreen said:
Yes, it's the "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles" comment with "reptiles" probably being the main offender, "all" being the second offender, "amoral" third, and I had to look up "intransigent" which I guess is fourth. I can't say I've seen you in the political forums a ton so I understand that maybe you missed the memo that the TPS reports shouldn't include comments like that anymore. In general, good conversation isn't encouraged by calling others "reptiles", generalizing certain characteristics to "all" people on a certain side. And, labeling others as lacking moral sense and unwilling to change, even if true, likely just leads to a bunch of "yes you are"/"no I'm not" childish back and forth and isn't showing an attempt to help others or learn from others.

IMO, of course.
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I was explicitly referring to GOP politicians. 

 
zftcg said:
Sounds like a classic case of “It seemed like a good idea at the time”.  :doh:

My first job out of college was in the production team of a newspaper. I had to scan and tone photos, and one of the lessons my boss drummed into my head was that you could touch up a photo, but you could never edit it to make it appear like there was something in there that wasn’t in the original (unless it was clearly labeled as a photo illustration.) We never wanted to violate the implicit trust our readers had in us to present facts.

If I may be so bold as to tell you how to do your job, I think that’s probably a good rule of thumb for forum moderation as well. If you’re putting words in people’s posts that they didn’t write, you’re crossing a line
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Definitely true, and I already knew that -- I just wasn't thinking about it in those terms. Obvious in hindsight. 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
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On a higher plane of discussion, that would be absolutely fine. And by higher I don't mean better, just different; more disconnected from semi-literal connotations. The wording you used can be easily interpreted as pretty dang offensive in the context of conversation here. People like to make a big deal about the notion of Trump not lasting very long here without being banned, but the same concept applies to Christopher Hitchens.

 
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RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
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Looks like the post was
 

"I mean, sure. But the fact GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles isn’t a reason for Democrats not to do their jobs. "

That kind of trolling will get a suspension 10 out of 10 times. Sorry.

 
dgreen said:
I know. They're people too...IMO.

Joe has been pretty clear that he's not interested in there being nastiness directed at anyone. There may have even been some suspensions related to comments about a top terrorist being killed a few months ago.
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Yeah, I once got a brief suspension for a post during a Congressional hearing where I, um, questioned the intelligence of one of the GOP representatives. I had thought it was OK to do that to public figures, just not forum members. Turns out that was an incorrect assumption. Lesson learned.

 
:lmao:  Still circling the drain. 

Looks like things have moved beyond sharing opinions and having discussions, and more towards ownership and moderation telling people what those opinions should be. If you can't type those opinions on your own, they will help you by altering your posts to align with the right (their) opinion. 

@Maurile Tremblay - Before you told me to find another board, you told me that nobody was altering people's posts. You were wrong. I had my suspicions at the time, but had no proof. It didn't take long for the proof to present itself. The suspicion just needed to be brought to light and others would find the examples. 

@Joe Bryant - Myself and other posters have repeatedly told you that your moderators are as much of a problem as the posters. You continue to turn a blind eye to the bigger problems for the sake of friendship. I hope those friends can keep your business afloat. 

@Bozeman Bruiser - I will continue to check in from time to time, but I've decided I it's not worth posting when those posts can be hidden or altered. It's not worth my time or effort. Unfortunately, Joe doesn't see anyone in the PSF as a potential customer and treats us as such. I was wrong to say that Joe was looking for a utopian message board. What he's really looking for is a dystopian message board where everyone is miserable except for him. 

Now, back to my gardening.

 
Joe Bryant said:
Looks like the post was
 

"I mean, sure. But the fact GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral reptiles isn’t a reason for Democrats not to do their jobs. "

That kind of trolling will get a suspension 10 out of 10 times. Sorry.
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What's trolling about it? It is my sincere belief that it is 100% accurate.

Out of deference to the new standards of conduct, I will certainly not use provocative words like "reptiles" going forward.  

 
Holy guacamole this thread.

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD. It's not life or death. Just act like an adult if you don't want to get banned. And don't be annoying and whiny. 

I really love this forum and the posters here and it really does provide a wealth of information that makes me more knowledgeable, but I seriously wonder how you guys have time or energy to constantly complain about things on... a... message... board...

I honestly sort of envy some of you that you have enough free time to get sucked up into this back and forth stuff. But at least have a bit of respect for the folks running this site so they don't have to deal with juvenile crap as part of their job function. No one likes that.  

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I have a sincere question here. This isn't meant to be whining; I really need some clarity.

I received a two week suspension that just ended sometime yesterday. I think it was the first time I have been suspended in nearly 15 years on this site.

Here is the post that led to my suspension:

I really don't see what didn't conform to the guidelines in that post. It is also worth mentioning that the post was neither edited nor deleted following my suspension.

If I know the actual rules I can choose to conform to them or not to participate, but I don't even know what what I did that was "wrong". 

I would also add, respectfully, that a two week suspension for that post seems egregiously heavy-handed.

Was it the use of the term "reptiles"? If I had said "GOP pols are all intransigent and amoral actors" would I have been suspended?
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I feel bad because I knew you would get a suspension, but was too lazy to PM you.  😥

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
Joe is in a tough spot. He knows this sub forum is a fringe minority but it generates the most traffic on the site. Hard to turn that down. Money is money at the end of the day, regardless of how many subscriptions you sell or Thursday BBQs you hold.
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Hey Joe, regarding all tht cash I stuffed into your pockets, you're welcome.

 
Slapdash said:
Oh well. 

Still, you wouldn't have believed me.  Making comments about what the GOP does is banworthy here.  
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I try to understand the real truth and to be direct in calling things by their name. I'll certainly try to avoid blatantly inflammatory language, but otherwise I'll let the chips fall where they may.

 
TheMagus said:
Holy guacamole this thread.

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD. It's not life or death. Just act like an adult if you don't want to get banned. And don't be annoying and whiny. 

I really love this forum and the posters here and it really does provide a wealth of information that makes me more knowledgeable, but I seriously wonder how you guys have time or energy to constantly complain about things on... a... message... board...

I honestly sort of envy some of you that you have enough free time to get sucked up into this back and forth stuff. But at least have a bit of respect for the folks running this site so they don't have to deal with juvenile crap as part of their job function. No one likes that.  
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Post. Of. The. Month

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I suggest sticking to literal truth, but if you're going to be metaphorical, don't refer to humans as rats, cockroaches, reptiles, vermin, monkeys, or other dehumanizing terms.
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So, again, in the interest of clarification, it was the use of the word "reptile" that was the problem? If so, got it.

If there is more to it than that, I'd greatly appreciate additional specificity.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Well, I want to cop to likely bias (though not exactly political bias) in changing "orangemanbad" to "Donald Trump is an awful president and a terrible human being." (Thank you to whoever pointed out the improper capitalization of president.)

I'll share my thought process. Megla asked earlier today if I thought the two phrases were comparable and I said yes, but comparable doesn't mean identical. They are different in two important respects. (If they were identical, I wouldn't have bothered substituting one for the other.)

First, "orangemanbad" is, to me, the much more repulsive phrase, which is why I wanted to replace it with something more sanitized. I don't like Donald Trump. But he is my president and I genuinely hate seeing people disparaged for their physical looks. Denouncing Trump for his skin color isn't as bad as denouncing Obama for his due to the historical baggage involved, but both are bad. I want to see people post something more substantive than just abusive epithets. It doesn't matter which side it comes from, and it doesn't matter whether it's meant ironically or bitterly. If I see people mocking Trump for being orange, I will at the very least hide their posts.

The other difference, though, is that "awful" and "terrible" are worse than "bad." So a better auto-correct would have been simply "President Trump is bad." Why did I go for the "awful" and "terrible" instead? I think my conscious reasoning was that I had to intensify the "bad" to make up for deleting the "orange" in order to preserve some rough parity in the sentiments of the two phrases. This would have been a bad decision even if that were all there was to it.

But I think a secondary reason, mostly but maybe not completely subconscious, is that I was annoyed at the people constantly saying "orangemanbad" and so I chose language I thought they might be less eager to adopt as their own, just to annoy them back a bit.

That secondary reason made it worse than just a bad decision -- it was really not defensible on my part.

So I screwed up, and I am sorry.
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I get annoyed at the constant "Party over Country" when the Liberals disagree with me.  But I realize their right to say it 100 times over and over. 

I was spamming Orangemanbad at a point.  And it was in response to a constant "And Trump did this.  And he did this.  And what about this.  I actually won't talk about policy or issues ever, just bad things Trump did."  And what in the world is the point if that's all we're doing.  I made a conscious effort to cut back on the phrase--because I realize it doesn't help discussion anymore than what the other posters were doing.  

So I don't appreciate you auto correcting the phrase.  But I do appreciate and respect you owning it and apologizing.  

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I suggest sticking to literal truth, but if you're going to be metaphorical, don't refer to humans as rats, cockroaches, reptiles, vermin, monkeys, or other dehumanizing terms.
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What @Maurile Tremblay said.

And as we've said many times, I fully get we are an outlier in asking people to be cool. Unfortunately, we're at a level where we have to have to make it clear for people that not referring to humans as rats, cockroaches, reptiles, vermin, monkeys, or other dehumanizing terms is not being cool. 

Is that the right thing? I've no idea. But it's how we're going to try and operate here. 

 
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Bozeman Bruiser said:
Joe is in a tough spot. He knows this sub forum is a fringe minority but it generates the most traffic on the site. Hard to turn that down. Money is money at the end of the day, regardless of how many subscriptions you sell or Thursday BBQs you hold.
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The PSF loses money for FBG.  Joe has explained this repeatedly.  The fiction you offer up, that he’s keeping the PSF alive for monetary benefit, is pure fiction.   The simplest thing to do, the economically rational thing to do, would be to shut it down.  It’s mind blowing and maddening that a small subset of folks continue to peddle this erroneous theory.

If Joe and I switched places (like some horrible late 80s rip off of Big - maybe starring Jason Bateman), the PSF would already be shut down.   Sadly, that would mean a small group of people who are on an unstated personal mission to shut it down.....would get their way.  But so be it.

Definition of insanity?  Yeah. Things aren’t going to change in here.  I’ve accepted that.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
Unfortunately, we're at a level where we have to have to make it clear for people that not referring to humans as rats, cockroaches, reptiles, vermin, monkeys, or other dehumanizing terms is not being cool. 
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It’s quite amazing when you put it that way. 

President Trump referred to some of his opponents as rats and vermin. Nobody raised an eyebrow. Bernie Sanders seems to imply that anyone who makes a lot of money is evil; nobody objects. We are dehumanizing each other to a degree that is becoming alarming. 

Thanks for trying to put a stop to it in your own small way. You’re in the right. 

 
FTR:  when I posted "HAHAHA -- triggered liberal is triggered," I was saying that I find @SaintsInDome2006 to be a thoughtful ~conservative who puts a lot of effort into his posts and doesn't deserve to have them dismissed by people pretending he's some sort of left-wing whiner.  Saints understood that.  And gave it a like.

On balance, all things considered, I'm sure I deserved the TO for something, so no complaints there. 

Just figured this might be a teachable moment:

"Sarcasm is an ironic or satirical remark tempered by humor. Mainly, people use it to say the opposite of what's true to make someone look or feel foolish."  Mainly, but not always! In this case I was using it to defend someone else.  Someone I don't always agree with, but who I can find happy discussion with anyway.  I was saying, "Don't let the haters get you down, Saints!" or "Chin up, old chap!"

So really, when you drill down, I was protecting the spirit of the forum.

 
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Actually I probably should not have posted.  It was meant to be light-hearted but given what Joe and Maurile have had to deal with they don't need even the smallest amount of questioning, even light-hearted ones.

 
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HellToupee said:
This is an interesting take 
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I think Alex is right but even if he’s going to far and attributing malice to ambivalence it’s easy to prove that at a minimum there’s   a group of people who are more interested in being right or doing as they wish rather than follow the rules.  My ask is only that instead of closing the place they send those folks packing.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
The PSF loses money for FBG.  Joe has explained this repeatedly.  The fiction you offer up, that he’s keeping the PSF alive for monetary benefit, is pure fiction.   The simplest thing to do, the economically rational thing to do, would be to shut it down.  It’s mind blowing and maddening that a small subset of folks continue to peddle this erroneous theory.
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In a previous life I was responsible for moderating a forum on my employer’s website. And it’s been my observation that any message board will have a number of heavy users who vastly overestimate the significance of that forum to the business’ bottom line. 

And in a life before that, I bought online media. We had a standard clause in our contract that our ads could not appear on the forum/chat section of any website, and if we found them running there we had the right to cancel the entire ad campaign. The reason we did that was because we knew from experience that people who frequent those sections never click on any ads, and whatever we ran there was a total waste.

So yeah, forums <> moneymaker

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Could be, no I don't. Not a big deal, I'm not asking it to be pulled back, just curious if some rule was violated.
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I was literally in the middle of reading it when it was pulled! Went from p1 to p2 and got an error message.

At first I thought maybe it was simply calling Gaetz an idiot (although it sounds like that was a specific reference to a story about him trying to find out who was calling him that). Then again, the thread had been up for awhile and only got pulled today.

 
zftcg said:
I was literally in the middle of reading it when it was pulled! Went from p1 to p2 and got an error message.

At first I thought maybe it was simply calling Gaetz an idiot (although it sounds like that was a specific reference to a story about him trying to find out who was calling him that). Then again, the thread had been up for awhile and only got pulled today.
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Yeah, but wasn't the title inflammatory? Something about hating Matt Gaetz? That might explain it and sometimes it takes the mods awhile to react.

On a related note, I thought I had started a neutral Official Matt Gaetz thread during the impeachment hearings, but I can't find that in a search. Maybe I am mistaken and just thought about that and never did it, but I kinda doubt it.

 
I've been pretty supportive and optimistic about this forum. 

I understand it's fun to pull the "hey, I got you suspended!" bit.  I understand it's nifty to play the "favoritism/victim" card for some segment of people here.  But when your glee and your fun is based on reporting a man with progressive dementia to the moderators and lobbying to have him suspended, and then making fun of him when he comes back and posts an angry statement, you've lost me.

There are some really good people on this board.  I hope for good things for them. There are some people here wasting air.  I hope they plant trees or something to make up for it.

 
Henry Ford said:
I've been pretty supportive and optimistic about this forum. 

I understand it's fun to pull the "hey, I got you suspended!" bit.  I understand it's nifty to play the "favoritism/victim" card for some segment of people here.  But when your glee and your fun is based on reporting a man with progressive dementia to the moderators and lobbying to have him suspended, and then making fun of him when he comes back and posts an angry statement, you've lost me.

There are some really good people on this board.  I hope for good things for them. There are some people here wasting air.  I hope they plant trees or something to make up for it.
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Link?  Because that's a pretty bold statement.

DW blamed Bozeman although the FBG Moderator's signature  "Don't" when suspending someone happened two pages before Bozeman even posted in that thread.  In fact it happened almost immediately after he posted what he did.  

I don't report, but, that post would qualify as reportable, imo.  Are you saying posts like that shouldn't be reported?  Or they shouldn't be reported if the poster has a medical condition and how are we supposed to know what posters medical conditions are?

 
Henry Ford said:
I've been pretty supportive and optimistic about this forum. 

I understand it's fun to pull the "hey, I got you suspended!" bit.  I understand it's nifty to play the "favoritism/victim" card for some segment of people here.  But when your glee and your fun is based on reporting a man with progressive dementia to the moderators and lobbying to have him suspended, and then making fun of him when he comes back and posts an angry statement, you've lost me.

There are some really good people on this board.  I hope for good things for them. There are some people here wasting air.  I hope they plant trees or something to make up for it.
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Who is doing the things you describe?  Also, I don't know anyone's medical conditions on this board.  Really, should you be sharing that kind of information about another person to a large audience?   I'd look in the mirror on that one if I were you.

 
Henry Ford said:
I've been pretty supportive and optimistic about this forum. 

I understand it's fun to pull the "hey, I got you suspended!" bit.  I understand it's nifty to play the "favoritism/victim" card for some segment of people here.  But when your glee and your fun is based on reporting a man with progressive dementia to the moderators and lobbying to have him suspended, and then making fun of him when he comes back and posts an angry statement, you've lost me.

There are some really good people on this board.  I hope for good things for them. There are some people here wasting air.  I hope they plant trees or something to make up for it.
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@Ditkaless Wonders is one of my favorite posters on this board. 
 

He’s at the very top of my “which fbg do you want to have a beer with”

I hope to hell he changes his mind about leaving.

I didn’t know about his health issue, I doubt many posters here today do.

I don’t see anyone making fun of him. 

And you Henry, are very good at making fun of people here, you do it often, you just do it in a different way. You’re just way more subtle.  So I’m not sure you’re the one to call people out for doing that

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Who is doing the things you describe?  Also, I don't know anyone's medical conditions on this board.  Really, should you be sharing that kind of information about another person to a large audience?   I'd look in the mirror on that one if I were you.
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He's talked about it before :shrug:  

 
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