Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (5 Viewers)

[BigJim®]

I agree the Vikings have been throwing outside a lot.

Dobbs does have the arm for these throws. I wonder if the intent with these is to try to prevent turnovers? As the inside routes do take a bit better timing and ball placement.

They were not throwing it outside as much with Cousins.

If they are trying to reduce turnovers, 10-yard out routes are the riskiest attack to do that. Unless timing is spot on, it's a pick 6 waiting to happen. Chicago actually dropped one that should have been. Dobbs is clearly struggling with anticipation. On some of the outs, the receiver was waiting too long for the ball to get there (dangerous). He overcorrected on the Addison one that resulted in INT across the middle, Dobbs over-anticipated and the ball caught Addison by surprise - already being on his facemask when he turned. Timing is going to remain a thing with Dobbs. What this team desperately needs is ability to run the ball to mitigate and keep a defense guessing - which they are unable to do with this OL, even against a pass rush happy front.

What bothered me the most about the gameplan is out routes are the Bears bread and butter. WR screens always have been as far back as I can remember. They know how to execute them quickly, with good blocking, and I suspect they train enough to also know how to defend them. I don't want to believe our plan was to show them up doing what they do better. Still, if it quacks like a duck...

Yeah I hear you.

Maybe those out routes are considered good because of Dobbs mobility or that they can go out of bounds if placed where only the receiver can get it?

I might be grasping at straws trying to explain that. But maybe they were considered less risky than throws over the middle?

I'm really not sure.

Just listening to KOCs comments he did seem concerned about Dobbs and turnovers. Saying that Dobbs needs more reps to find the timing and rhythm of the offense which does make sense.

I can't really explain the out routes though and what you are saying is true about that.

I don't recall out routes being a big part of the offense with Cousins. Not more than any other route anyways. So if it was frequent as you say, that seems like an adjustment to help Dobbs to me, right or wrong.

I have noticed more quick (but not really 'quick' enough) out passes even with Cousins that we have lost yards throwing. I remember an exchange with another poster who complained about Cousins/3 and outs earlier in the season and I showed several examples of drives beginning with -4 yard outs to KJ/Hock - essentially dooming critical drives. Unproductive early down playcalls have worsened our rush attack, and increased 3-and-outs. Could have been in the Travdogg thread. No idea why we pass those to the larger receiver and rely on shrimpy receiver to block 2 guys to make them work.

We're just not good at screens of any sort, including those. What I noticed more last week is the 5-10 yard outs, which require significant precision/timing. Someone in the front office may be able to explain why we select the most difficult pass type to reduce risk. I don't understand much of our offensive approach these past 2 weeks.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

If I can find time I will try to go back and look for plays like this specifically and maybe focus on 1st down throw tendency if I can get that far to see if I can make any sense of it.

I did not watch many plays from the Bears game.

Just a small example I found from the Travdogg scrutiny of "Cousins failing" on the only two 4th quarter drives in our loss to Tampa, Here is how those 2 drives began:

1st & 10 at MIN 20
(11:11 - 4th) K.Cousins pass short left to T.Hockenson to MIN 17 for -3 yards (D.White) [A.Nelson].

1st & 10 at MIN 25​

(5:10 - 4th) K.Cousins pass short left to T.Hockenson to MIN 21 for -4 yards (L.David, L.Hall).

There have been several more of these quick out losses over the season. Other examples just from the Bears game:

1st & 10 at MIN 33​

(10:03 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Dobbs pass short right to K.Osborn to MIN 33 for no gain (J.Johnson).

1st & 10 at MIN 31​

(5:06 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Dobbs pass short left to A.Mattison to MIN 31 for no gain (T.Smith).

1st & 10 at MIN 49​

(4:49 - 3rd) J.Dobbs pass short right to C.Ham to MIN 48 for -1 yards (J.Sanborn).

 

[skol asylum]

I hate the quick out plays. Always have, always will. The passing equivalent of a draw play. Tear them both out of the play book and burn them.

 

[snogger]

You had two weeks to prepare and THATS the offensive game plan you come up with??
Same as what cost you two games in a row prior to the bye.

I will never understand why coaches always try to meld players into their game plan, rather than plan around the skills of the player.
If you have a mobile QB, take advantage of it. They ran 4 or 5 RPO's and on each one handed off. Can't say it was to protect Dobb's from getting injured when you sat him later in the game.

I like O'Connel as a Head Coach, but think they need to hire an offensive coach next year as he seems to have a hard time doing both.

I guess a win is a win, but 3-0 against The Raiders?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's wrong with 3-0? Lots of teams have won Stanley Cups by riding a hot goaltender.

 

[Biabreakable]

You had two weeks to prepare and THATS the offensive game plan you come up with??
Same as what cost you two games in a row prior to the bye.

I will never understand why coaches always try to meld players into their game plan, rather than plan around the skills of the player.
If you have a mobile QB, take advantage of it. They ran 4 or 5 RPO's and on each one handed off. Can't say it was to protect Dobb's from getting injured when you sat him later in the game.

I like O'Connel as a Head Coach, but think they need to hire an offensive coach next year as he seems to have a hard time doing both.

I guess a win is a win, but 3-0 against The Raiders?

To be fair listening to KOC's post game conference he says they did form the game plan around what they felt Dobbs does best. Some of the RPOs are an example of that. The way the defense played this caused Dobbs to hand it off rather than keep it. The opponent had a bye to work on a plan vs Dobbs too you know?

He also said much of their plan was based around Jefferson being back. Jefferson got knocked out of the game early and they had to adjust their plan without him after that.

As far as kOC needing a coordinator? Well yeah Wes Phillips had a DUI on Friday. Obviously getting drunk more important to Phillips than doing his job is. So what kind of job is he doing in that condition? That explains a lot to me.

Then on top of this he decides to drive in such a condition instead of having someone else drive him? Just another example of his poor judgment. I tell you what these people in NFL are so privileged. They have been getting away with things no one else could since highschool just because of their connection to football. Makes me want to not waste another moment on this stupid game honestly when it's full of people like this. Everyone is supposed to just look the other way and they have no accountability because of the game. That's what their culture and expectations are. Have you heard these millionaires talk about how they always expect free stuff? It's sickening really.

To KOCs credit he was very candid about his disappointment with what Phillips did. That Wes is his friend and he will support him but that there will be disciplinary measures for what he did they are still working through. To me what KOC said about this is more than the lip service I usually hear in regards to these things that most people in football just try to sweep under the rug.

Anyhow there you have it. Wes Phillips is responsible for the game plan but he's been too drunk to do a good job or even the minimum of obeying the law. No wonder the offensive game plan is so bad.

 

[abrunn1133]

The good: What Flores has done with this defense is nothing short of remarkable. If he does not get an HC job next year then there is something seriously wrong. The Vikings better hope they have a BFlo disciple ready to step in. Ian Pace Jr. is one of the better free agent signings in recent Viking history, maybe even not-so-recent history. The fact that this undrafted kid can be the signal caller of an NFL defense, plus put up the numbers he did today, is awesome to see.

Josh Metellus continues to play at an All Pro level. Another defensive player that the Vikings invested very little draft capital in that is flourishing in Flores system.

The bad: The entire offense, led by Joshua Dobbs. Dobbs is not an NFL QB. He shows zero anticipation when WRs are in their route, he does not possess any semblance of pocket presence, and LITERALLY threw a hospital ball to Jefferson (high over the middle). I can safely say that experiment is over.

The offensive line, including when Brian O’Neill was in early in the game, was abysmal. O’Neill was a complete turnstile before he exited the game with injury.

To be somewhat fair to Dobbs, the WRs and TEs did not do him any favors with numerous drops. KJ Osborn has not looked the same since his concussion. Jalen Nailor is not an NFL receiver, and Hockenson still has issues with battling for tough catches. Addison has not looked great the second half of the year.

Moving forward the Vikings now enter the Nick Mullens era. From what we saw, he looks like an NFL QB, albeit a backup NFL QB. He appeared to throw with better anticipation, even though his accuracy looked suspect. I am not expecting much out of him the remainder of the year.

7-6 record and currently in the playoffs as it stands today. Tough remaining schedule so getting to what looks like the needed 9 wins

 

[Biabreakable]

I agree what Flores has done is amazing. I was very critical of the defense early on, but they have been playing excellent since about week 6 or so. I love it. I am not sure if he can be replaced but I also hope someone else will be able to run the same scheme after this season as I fully expect Flores to be promoted and become the HC of another team. I don't expect whoever that is to be as good as Flores, but maybe they can maintain a lot of the good things they have accomplished schematically.

Ivan Pace may be the best free agent for the Vikings since Adam Tielen. He has been great.

Film Room: Why Vikings Ivan Pace Jr has FLASHED on Tape​

Pace has obviously been able to show more of what he can do since Hicks got injured.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's wrong with 3-0? Lots of teams have won Stanley Cups by riding a hot goaltender.

Coincidentally and funnily enough... The Wild and Vikings did win by the same score yesterday.

 

[Gally]

The good: What Flores has done with this defense is nothing short of remarkable. If he does not get an HC job next year then there is something seriously wrong. The Vikings better hope they have a BFlo disciple ready to step in.

I think Flores is a good to great DC. I think he is not a great head coach. I am sure he will get another shot but he is best suited to stay as a DC.

 

[snogger]

That OL was a mess again, yet O'Connell insisted having Dobb's sit back in the pocket. Do I think Dobb's is a "Franchise QB? No.

But I think he could be a great weapon if you used his mobility to keep the defense honest.
Should be a LOT more screens, roll-outs, QB runs, etc. with someone like him back there.

Also, hearing some fans today saying "Well, at least Mullen drove them to a FG"..
Dobbs did the same, but Joseph missed.. But guess that was Dobb's fault as well.

Interesting statistic I saw today:
Since 2008, NFL teams are now 1-256 when scoring three or fewer points.
The one win is Sunday's Vikings win over the Raiders."

Oh and thought the announcers did a pretty good job considering how boring the game was.

At one point they went to a game break and the lady said something along the lines of "Unlike your game, sorry for that, we have a score here to show you"

When they came back, the Announcers were talking and said
"Do you think other games are having game breaks of ours saying "And here is Punt number 15"

 

[snogger]

The good: What Flores has done with this defense is nothing short of remarkable. If he does not get an HC job next year then there is something seriously wrong. The Vikings better hope they have a BFlo disciple ready to step in. Ian Pace Jr. is one of the better free agent signings in recent Viking history, maybe even not-so-recent history. The fact that this undrafted kid can be the signal caller of an NFL defense, plus put up the numbers he did today, is awesome to see.

Josh Metellus continues to play at an All Pro level. Another defensive player that the Vikings invested very little draft capital in that is flourishing in Flores system.

The bad: The entire offense, led by Joshua Dobbs. Dobbs is not an NFL QB. He shows zero anticipation when WRs are in their route, he does not possess any semblance of pocket presence, and LITERALLY threw a hospital ball to Jefferson (high over the middle). I can safely say that experiment is over.

The offensive line, including when Brian O’Neill was in early in the game, was abysmal. O’Neill was a complete turnstile before he exited the game with injury.

To be somewhat fair to Dobbs, the WRs and TEs did not do him any favors with numerous drops. KJ Osborn has not looked the same since his concussion. Jalen Nailor is not an NFL receiver, and Hockenson still has issues with battling for tough catches. Addison has not looked great the second half of the year.

Moving forward the Vikings now enter the Nick Mullens era. From what we saw, he looks like an NFL QB, albeit a backup NFL QB. He appeared to throw with better anticipation, even though his accuracy looked suspect. I am not expecting much out of him the remainder of the year.

7-6 record and currently in the playoffs as it stands today. Tough remaining schedule so getting to what looks like the needed 9 wins

I agree about the WR's and even Hockerson.. So many drops during parts of the game.
Had they caught half of what they dropped, good chance they have an easy win, rather then waiting until 2 minutes left to get a FG.

There were at least 2 throws that Mullen tossed that should have been intercepted..
They even had a camera angle on one showing his face with "Dang, I got bleeping lucky" ..

This Division is up in the air..
Lions had a nice run, but teams have figured them out and I'm not as scared that 2 of the last 3 are against them.. Getting Lions and Packers at home in back-to-back games is a great schedule.

9-8 may just win this division at this point

 

[Biabreakable]

That OL was a mess again, yet O'Connell insisted having Dobb's sit back in the pocket. Do I think Dobb's is a "Franchise QB? No.

But I think he could be a great weapon if you used his mobility to keep the defense honest.
Should be a LOT more screens, roll-outs, QB runs, etc. with someone like him back there.

Also, hearing some fans today saying "Well, at least Mullen drove them to a FG"..
Dobbs did the same, but Joseph missed.. But guess that was Dobb's fault as well.

Interesting statistic I saw today:
Since 2008, NFL teams are now 1-256 when scoring three or fewer points.
The one win is Sunday's Vikings win over the Raiders."

Oh and thought the announcers did a pretty good job considering how boring the game was.

At one point they went to a game break and the lady said something along the lines of "Unlike your game, sorry for that, we have a score here to show you"

When they came back, the Announcers were talking and said
"Do you think other games are having game breaks of ours saying "And here is Punt number 15"

The offensive line definitely struggled. Maxx Crosby is ridiculously good. O'Neil could not handle him. I think O'Neil has played really well for several years now but Crosby really made him look bad. Then O'Neil got injured.

With that happening ONiel couldn't help Ingram at all and both he and Bradbury looked bad many times. From what I saw the other side did ok.

Your optimism about Dobbs seems strange to me.

As far as the drops yes receivers need to catch the ball, but Dobbs does not throw well placed balls and the timing on them is off also. He does make it harder for the receivers to do their jobs. I am not excusing the receivers here, that's their job to catch the ball. Just being clear that Dobbs does throw in such ways that it makes it more difficult for them to catch it. That said Osborn was dropping very catchable balls from Cousins before he was injured. I don't think Osborn is a natural catcher at all. I think Addison and Powell have better hands than him.

I agree Mullens made some ugly throws as well.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

It's always been frustrating being a Vikings' fan, but this year has got to take the cake for me! The way this defense has played with the way Cousins started the year...it had the makings of a dominant team that could go far...

 

[VikingFrog]

It's always been frustrating being a Vikings' fan, but this year has got to take the cake for me! The way this defense has played with the way Cousins started the year...it had the makings of a dominant team that could go far...

Would it make you less frustrated if I told you, as a fellow Vikings fan, that even if Cousins was still playing and all of these bad things didn’t happen, we’d still get our hearts broken in some form or fashion?

 

[snogger]

It's always been frustrating being a Vikings' fan, but this year has got to take the cake for me! The way this defense has played with the way Cousins started the year...it had the makings of a dominant team that could go far...

Would it make you less frustrated if I told you, as a fellow Vikings fan, that even if Cousins was still playing and all of these bad things didn’t happen, we’d still get our hearts broken in some form or fashion?

Probably yet another "wide right"

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Not saying the Raiders are the greatest show on turf, but I think this defense is HIGHLY underrated. If they can get the offense to at least be somewhat average, they could do some damage in the playoffs...

 

[skol asylum]

Not saying the Raiders are the greatest show on turf, but I think this defense is HIGHLY underrated. If they can get the offense to at least be somewhat average, they could do some damage in the playoffs...

Maybe should have stolen Flacco off the Brownies practice squad.

 

[Biabreakable]

Not saying the Raiders are the greatest show on turf, but I think this defense is HIGHLY underrated. If they can get the offense to at least be somewhat average, they could do some damage in the playoffs...

It might be. I am not entirely sure. I haven't spent enough time studying the Raiders defense.

They certainly played well vs the Vikings and maybe it wasn't purely offensive ineptitude.

Dobbs being overly cautious to avoid turnovers maybe led to him not playing as well as he could.

I mostly just don't think Dobbs has the timing with the offense to make the anticipation throws it thrives on. He still may not be good enough. The ball placement on his throws is still really bad and more practice might not be able to change that.

If Dobbs had a full offseason install with the team and practice that Mullens has had I am sure he would be better. Just not sure if better would be good enough or better than Mullens right now.

And don't get me wrong Mullens threw some turnover worthy passes as well. He just got lucky on those. He might not be so lucky on Saturday.

 

[snogger]

.. And that's being nice.

Mullen's EASILY could have had 4 int's. Both TD'S to Addison were the definition of luck.

And I'll say it again, O'Connell needs to give up calling the Offensive plays.
Who the bleep decides, two plays in a row, to have one of the smallest players on the field be the pusher??????

You have Ham, Hockerson, heck, even put a OL man back there if that's the play you insist on running twice in a row.


Might as well go back to Hall as Dobb's won't work in this offense, and Mullen's makes way too many bad decisions.
Time yet again to think to next year with who knows at QB..

 

[BigJim®]

Have to be able to get 4 inches when you need it, and the coaching needs to accept you are not doing that running behind Bradbury.

 

[Gally]

Have to be able to get 4 inches when you need it, and the coaching needs to accept you are not doing that running behind Bradbury.

Bradbury got absolutely destroyed in that last play. Forget Powell as the pusher as that didn't matter after Bradbury was put in the backfield.

 

[3 hour lunch]

I thought Mullens looked decent most of the game, but the handful of bad choices were absolute killers. I agree with KOC in theory with the sneaks, but we maybe just don’t have the personnel for it. He said Powell was in there to keep Cincy out of goalline, but he provided zero help on the push so seems like overthinking to me…..

 

[Biabreakable]

I thought Mullens looked decent most of the game, but the handful of bad choices were absolute killers. I agree with KOC in theory with the sneaks, but we maybe just don’t have the personnel for it. He said Powell was in there to keep Cincy out of goalline, but he provided zero help on the push so seems like overthinking to me…..

Agreed.

I think that's fine running hurry up and not changing personnel so that the Bengals don't bring in goal line, but run a different play to get the first down.

They haven't been good in these short yardage situations all season and I agree with what others have said about Bradbury being a part of why that is.

They should know this by now and have a better plan for these situations that the offense can execute more effectively.

Run it off tackle or throw a quick pass. Whatever they think is one of their better plays. Don't just follow a fad that this team isn't good at.

 

[encaitar]

It felt like a true Vikings' game today. Go out and prove we are the better team. Then change how we've been playing(move to mostly zone on defense) only for the opponents to catch up... Followed by doing something stupid to lose the game.

At least we got to feel like Vikings' fans again. Thought that was over once Kirk went down.

Maybe now KOC can stop being an idiot and start the rookie. The NFL season is only about winning the SB. We should've been smart enough to see we weren't good enough on offense without Cousins to stand any chance and given Hall a good deep look, but our team is terrible at self evaluation and we poured everything into trying to sneak into the playoffs so we could lose in the wildcard and get a ****ty draft pick.

Biggest question for me today.... why the **** were we starting Mattison all year? Chandler is actually a dynamic attacking threat.

 

[Biabreakable]

It felt like a true Vikings' game today. Go out and prove we are the better team. Then change how we've been playing(move to mostly zone on defense) only for the opponents to catch up... Followed by doing something stupid to lose the game.

At least we got to feel like Vikings' fans again. Thought that was over once Kirk went down.

Maybe now KOC can stop being an idiot and start the rookie. The NFL season is only about winning the SB. We should've been smart enough to see we weren't good enough on offense without Cousins to stand any chance and given Hall a good deep look, but our team is terrible at self evaluation and we poured everything into trying to sneak into the playoffs so we could lose in the wildcard and get a ****ty draft pick.

Biggest question for me today.... why the **** were we starting Mattison all year? Chandler is actually a dynamic attacking threat.

I hear you. But the coach is all talking about winning out still. Thinks they can win the division if they do that. I suppose technically they could if they swept Detroit, but its more likely to be the other way around.

To be fair he was saying this before the Lions won again. But come on man time to smell the roses. Detroit has 10 wins already the Vikings have 7. The Vikings would need to win out and the Lions lose out for the Vikings to win the division on tie breakers. I'm not even sure if that is the first tie breaker or not. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN KOC wake the hell up!

I appreciate that this is all about their focus on culture and for the most part I think KOC comes across as pretty genuine about this stuff but you are absolutely right that the Vikings are not going to advance in the playoffs even if they somehow squeak in. Hall might give them a better chance to win anyways. Mullens trying to throw the ball with his back to the ground? Come on man! Who does he think he is? Case Keenum?

But no when asked about this KOC making his "kind of" minimalization excuses for that like he always does. Don't get me wrong I get it, he doesn't want to throw his players under the bus to the press but you can be more honest about these things without doing that. Just say this is something Mullens needs to correct or something.

I like KOC but maybe he believes too much of his own baloney. Some higher standards for player performance and being honest with yourself about that at least is necessary for the team to really improve.

As far as Chandler he did fail some pass protection assignments earlier in the season. What he did in this game should earn more trust from the coaches than they had before. I am still not sure he is the long term answer at RB or not (and by long term I mean a couple seasons) but he certainly had a good game. No doubt he is faster than Mattision. Most other NFL RB are.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I thought Mullens looked decent most of the game, but the handful of bad choices were absolute killers. I agree with KOC in theory with the sneaks, but we maybe just don’t have the personnel for it. He said Powell was in there to keep Cincy out of goalline, but he provided zero help on the push so seems like overthinking to me…..

I completely agree with the logic...but put 5 wides out there! And keep them wide. None of the DBs that are out there anyway are going to be trying to stop the sneak. I've always been of the belief that if you are going to run a sneak, why would you bunch everyone around the QB???? Makes no sense to me. And if you are going to bunch everyone up, throw to the outside, like they did earlier in the game.

Jefferson was one on one with a corner on the 4th down play...let him juke and get open...easy pickins...

 

[snogger]

Um, yea.. so Mullen's.. so glad they decided he gives the Vikings "the best chance to win".

Should have had 4 int's last week.
This week, in the first half already 2 int's.
Easily could be 3 as he got lucky in the red zone, and almost fumbled the ball away being stupid..

Would rather have the Rookie out there auditioning for next year... at least then you expect some "Rookie" mistakes.

 

[mr roboto]

Playing YOLO ball seems fun till it isn’t.

 

[3 hour lunch]

I have mixed feelings about Mullens. You can’t throw that many INTs, period. But he looks so good for stretches, you feel like you’ve got a shot with him. A mix of bad decisions and bad throws on the picks. The Oliver one he was open and it was a bad throw. The Addison one he was also open but the ball was thrown too much to the inside and too soft. The other Addison one was on 4th down, so you have to throw it; but Jefferson was a much better read. The last one, I’m not sure what happened, maybe the ball slipped out of his hand? If he completes that for a TD we’re looking at a huge win with 450 yards passing, down a couple of our major weapons. Hard to see Dobbs or Hall doing any better. I’d like Mullens back next year as a backup. I’m usually against throwing in the towel when you still have a playoff shot, but we are just decimated right now. Feels like it might be time to play Hall, although it doesn’t exactly set him up for success.

 

[Biabreakable]

I have mixed feelings about Mullens. You can’t throw that many INTs, period. But he looks so good for stretches, you feel like you’ve got a shot with him. A mix of bad decisions and bad throws on the picks. The Oliver one he was open and it was a bad throw. The Addison one he was also open but the ball was thrown too much to the inside and too soft. The other Addison one was on 4th down, so you have to throw it; but Jefferson was a much better read. The last one, I’m not sure what happened, maybe the ball slipped out of his hand? If he completes that for a TD we’re looking at a huge win with 450 yards passing, down a couple of our major weapons. Hard to see Dobbs or Hall doing any better. I’d like Mullens back next year as a backup. I’m usually against throwing in the towel when you still have a playoff shot, but we are just decimated right now. Feels like it might be time to play Hall, although it doesn’t exactly set him up for success.

Hall would benefit from some reps regardless.

It doesn't really matter to me what KOC decides to do. But of it were me I would use the opportunity to get Hall some experience.

Mullens is a veteran. It doesn't seem like he's improved much from the last time he got some starts. He has 2 years in the system now. I think he has made some good throws but he still makes bad ones too. I don't see more reps helping him as much as they would Hall.

Mullens still might be the best option right now. Hard to say. I just think it's an opportunity to let Hall get some experience.

 

[snogger]

So much to fix next year, so little money.

They need OL, DB, might lose Hunter due to money..
Do they extend JJ?
Oh yea, don't forget.. Who the heck is going to be the QB?
Hall, if he is the future, needs at least one, maybe two years to develop.
Mullens and Dobbs are gone.

Do the Vikings give a 36 year old, who is recovering from Achilles, the multiple year contract he wants, and probably a quite expensive contract at that?

If not Kirk, then who? Wilson?
Or yet another journey QB?

And if they don't resign Kirk, or at least sign a "decent" QB, does JJ ask for a trade?

Going to be a LONG off season.

 

[3 hour lunch]

So much to fix next year, so little money.

They need OL, DB, might lose Hunter due to money..
Do they extend JJ?
Oh yea, don't forget.. Who the heck is going to be the QB?
Hall, if he is the future, needs at least one, maybe two years to develop.
Mullens and Dobbs are gone.

Do the Vikings give a 36 year old, who is recovering from Achilles, the multiple year contract he wants, and probably a quite expensive contract at that?

If not Kirk, then who? Wilson?
Or yet another journey QB?

And if they don't resign Kirk, or at least sign a "decent" QB, does JJ ask for a trade?

Going to be a LONG off season.

Agreed, and division is going to be stout for the foreseeable future. Was so encouraged by the defense for a big chunk of the year, but really faded at the end of the year.

 

[Biabreakable]

So much to fix next year, so little money.

They need OL, DB, might lose Hunter due to money..
Do they extend JJ?
Oh yea, don't forget.. Who the heck is going to be the QB?
Hall, if he is the future, needs at least one, maybe two years to develop.
Mullens and Dobbs are gone.

Do the Vikings give a 36 year old, who is recovering from Achilles, the multiple year contract he wants, and probably a quite expensive contract at that?

If not Kirk, then who? Wilson?
Or yet another journey QB?

And if they don't resign Kirk, or at least sign a "decent" QB, does JJ ask for a trade?

Going to be a LONG off season.

Agreed, and division is going to be stout for the foreseeable future. Was so encouraged by the defense for a big chunk of the year, but really faded at the end of the year.

DJ Wonnum also a free agent. The defense was not as good without him.

There were other injuries on both sides of the ball that contributed to the slump but I think Wonnum was a significant loss to the pass rush.

 

[Gally]

So much to fix next year, so little money.

They need OL, DB, might lose Hunter due to money..
Do they extend JJ?
Oh yea, don't forget.. Who the heck is going to be the QB?
Hall, if he is the future, needs at least one, maybe two years to develop.
Mullens and Dobbs are gone.

Do the Vikings give a 36 year old, who is recovering from Achilles, the multiple year contract he wants, and probably a quite expensive contract at that?

If not Kirk, then who? Wilson?
Or yet another journey QB?

And if they don't resign Kirk, or at least sign a "decent" QB, does JJ ask for a trade?

Going to be a LONG off season.

Agreed, and division is going to be stout for the foreseeable future. Was so encouraged by the defense for a big chunk of the year, but really faded at the end of the year.

DJ Wonnum also a free agent. The defense was not as good without him.

There were other injuries on both sides of the ball that contributed to the slump but I think Wonnum was a significant loss to the pass rush.

Hunter was invisible and it almost looked like he didn't want to be out there. Just not the same urgency he usually plays with. Just a very odd game from him. Not sure how much of that was losing Wonnum as I thought Jones had looked good in his minimal time throughout the year but he didn't do much either. It was almost like they were mailing it in. Very disappointing.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'll say it again, the team needs to trade JJ.

You can't, of course trade him to Chicago, but maybe orchestrate a three way to get the #1 pick? (Plus more, of course)

But you can't pay a WR $35M to play for a team that has no QB and do many other weak spots. This team is about to fall off a cliff unless strong measures are taken.

 

[Gally]

I'll say it again, the team needs to trade JJ.

I mean, the win-loss record with and without JJ should make this obvious.


(sarcasm)

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'll say it again, the team needs to trade JJ.

I mean, the win-loss record with and without JJ should make this obvious.


(sarcasm)

I'm not sure what you're saying. He's been on the field for seven of their losses this year. And went 6/85/2 versus the Panthers and 2/27/0 versus the Raiders in the two wins.

 

[BigJim®]

Feeling Debbie Downer again. Whatever recipe the Vikes used to hold off the SF pass rush weeks ago (chipping I understood) seems to have fallen out of the paybook, and protection has been dismal. Whatever the Vikes do at QB, I'll anticipate the same result we saw from Jaren Hall unless/until pass protection is solved. As has been the case for as long as I can remember, not a hospitable environment to groom any QB.

 

[Gally]

I'll say it again, the team needs to trade JJ.

I mean, the win-loss record with and without JJ should make this obvious.


(sarcasm)

I'm not sure what you're saying. He's been on the field for seven of their losses this year. And went 6/85/2 versus the Panthers and 2/27/0 versus the Raiders in the two wins.

I was making a joke (apparently a bad one) that because the Vikes went 2-7 when he played this year he is making them lose and they should get rid of him.

 

[Biabreakable]

Well any opinions about where the Vikings go from here?

To me it seems like they have more problems/tough decisions to make than they have answers.

While the GM seems to have made the right decisions managing the salary cap (letting Adam Thielen and Dalvin Cook go) they haven't really added enough talent through the draft or free agency.

Personnel wise upcoming stars like Josh Metellus and DJ Wonnum are holdovers from the previous regime.

 

[Gally]

Well any opinions about where the Vikings go from here?

I would like them to sign Cousins to a discount. I don't think the injury will change his game and he was playing the best football of his career. I think he is great for this offensive system and the skill players around him are good for what he does. Would like to see them give Chandler a shot at lead back as he looked good down the stretch.

O-Line could always use improvement and depth. I am not in tune with available options but I would like to see them use their top pick on an O-Line or an edge rusher depending on who is available when the time comes.

I think they got exposed in the LB'ing group once Hicks went down. They need a leader for that group and I don't think it is Pace. He is fine as an LB2 but they need a guy to control that defense. Can we bring back Kendricks in his prime? Use the time machine as he would be great with Flores.

Secondary could always use help but I think Bynum and Mettalus are a good start.

DL - could fall off a cliff if they don't do something. Not sure if they can sign Cousins and Hunter but it would be nice....although they need more than just Hunter and it would be nice to get a younger addition to grow into that DE1 role. Wonnum was good this year but I wonder about his injury moving forward. A torn quad doesn't sound fun.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think re-signing Cousins makes sense if he doesn't impact the salary cap further than he already was or less.

At offensive line they might seek a free agent. Trading away Cleveland during the season was about not paying him in 2024. Risner also a free agent. So they need a guard. Rookie linemen are usually kind of rough to play right away. A veteran likely better.

Corner LB Edge or Dline all need more talent even if they do manage to keep Hunter too.

 

[Biabreakable]

Here are the last 2 drafts with the new regime.

1	32	32	Lewis Cine	Safety	Georgia
2	10	42	Andrew Booth Jr.	Cornerback	Clemson
2	27	59	Ed Ingram	Guard	LSU
3	2	66	Brian Asamoah	Linebacker	Oklahoma
4	13	118	Akayleb Evans	Cornerback	Missouri
5	22	165	Esezi Otomewo	Defensive end	Minnesota
5	26	169	Ty Chandler	Running back	North Carolina
6	5	184	Vederian Lowe	Offensive tackle	Illinois
6	12	191	Jalen Nailor	Wide receiver	Michigan State
7	6	227	Nick Muse	Tight end	South Carolina

Round	Pick #	Overall	Name	Position	College
1	23	23	Jordan Addison	Wide receiver	USC
3	39	102	Mekhi Blackmon	Cornerback	USC
4	32	134	Jay Ward	Safety	LSU
5	6	141	Jaquelin Roy	Defensive tackle	LSU
5	29	164	Jaren Hall	Quarterback	BYU
7	5	222	DeWayne McBride	Running back	UAB

 

[Biabreakable]

Lewis Cine hasn't contributed anything and its hard to say if his injury has sapped his former ability or not. The Vikings have a had a lot of bad luck with 1st round picks on defensive backs over the last decade or so. Be that rookie injuries or off the field trouble causing them to not pan out. I can understand people being a bit gun shy about investing in defensive back after all these misses they have had.

Mike Hughes (who eventually became ok with other teams although not great.
Jeff Gladnety out of the league.
Cameron Dantzler was ok in spots but eventually given up on.
Lewis Cine injured then 4th string or lower last season. At least the Vikings do have some other capable safeties to work with.
Andrew Booth might still be in the mix to contribute but hasn't been able to earn starting spot yet.
Akayleb Evans has started a lot of games but was benched for poor play late last season.
Mekhi Blackmon played some snaps last season and maybe he will be in rotation in 2024.

There is some depth here I guess but no real consistent starter yet.

I really like how the defense played for the most part last season but it was a bit of Amobea type defense with 3 safeties on the field a lot. Which makes the defense fast but not have a lot of size which can be a problem against teams getting offensive linemen match ups on safeties that are playing LB. While I don't think Jordan Hicks is a great LB he was good enough to fill that need of a LB with good size to at least clog up the middle a bit that they needed. I am not sure if Hicks will be back in 2024 or not. I think he is a free agent. It does seem that this scheme benefits from having at least one large LB in the middle of it.

Back to the draft classes it seems the Vikings got one starter in Ed Ingram at RG. He has made a lot of mistakes but young offensive linemen tend to do that. He has 2 seasons under his belt now and may be better in 2024. He isn't a star by any means but perhaps adequate. Evans has played a lot of snaps but I don't think we can count him as a hit as he was getting benched last season. Chandler and Nailor have contributed and maybe Chandler becomes the starting RB next season. To me this is one maybe two starters from that draft class.

2023 draft brought Addison who looks very good and maybe Blackmon. So its 3 or 4 players out of 16 selected who we might consider hits. I think the Vikings need to do a better job than this.

It has been a long time, going back to 2015 draft where the vikings added more than a couple starters from one draft. That is what this team needs now. The talent is so depleted now that it will be a lot easier for a rookie to actually step in a contribute now than it has been.

 

[Biabreakable]

I am still not that into the 2024 draft class yet. But looking at some top 100 type boards what I am seeing besides the QBs and 3 WR who are all rated top 10 type picks (and not needs for the Vikings if they do re-sign Kirk Cousins) there are several offensive linemen that are highly regarded. So with pick 11 the Vikings might be able to get a good player there. Which would help. While the Vikings only truly need one guard to fill out the starting 5 I would really like to see them replace Bradbury who hasn't been as bad but still is not that great either.

There are quite a few corners and edge players to consider. A MLB who could also play Edge might be the best option but I am not sure if such a player is available in this draft and perhaps not worthy of pick 11 if there is. Something I will be looking into more in days ahead.

Who are the players you think the Vikings should be targeting with pick 11?

 

[Biabreakable]

The last decade or so the Vikings have been very good at finding Edge players in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The last one being DJ Wonnum who was Andre Pattersons pet project before they Vikings got rid of him and Zimmerman. Him and Hunter may not be back with the Vikings in 2024 which might be the end of this run of the Vikings being able to acquire such players with later draft picks.

Everson Griffen along with Bryan Robison were kind of the start of that back in 2010 to Wonnum in 2020. It is a pretty long track record for the Vikings being able to do that, which may now be over.

 

[Biabreakable]

The defense always plays better when they have 3 or more of these pass rush capable players healthy for a game. Harrison Smith has been a great Edge player his whole career even though he plays safety. He likely wont be back because of $ so that will be one fewer good options available with Smith gone. If you considered Smith a LB last season he was probably the best one.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I thought all the buzz has them moving up from 11 to take a QB?

 

[snogger]

I thought all the buzz has them moving up from 11 to take a QB?

The mocks are all over the place.. I've Seen QB, CB, edge rusher, WR..

Just a matter of time for someone to mock a FB.

 

[skol asylum]

I am still not that into the 2024 draft class yet. But looking at some top 100 type boards what I am seeing besides the QBs and 3 WR who are all rated top 10 type picks (and not needs for the Vikings if they do re-sign Kirk Cousins) there are several offensive linemen that are highly regarded. So with pick 11 the Vikings might be able to get a good player there. Which would help. While the Vikings only truly need one guard to fill out the starting 5 I would really like to see them replace Bradbury who hasn't been as bad but still is not that great either.

There are quite a few corners and edge players to consider. A MLB who could also play Edge might be the best option but I am not sure if such a player is available in this draft and perhaps not worthy of pick 11 if there is. Something I will be looking into more in days ahead.

Who are the players you think the Vikings should be targeting with pick 11?

Trade up for a QB. It's time. I know it will cost a lot but how long until they get a pick this high again?