timschochet
Footballguy
Just want to emphasize that I used the word “if” in my analysis. This isn’t quite over yet. Russia still has 130,000 men on the border ready to invade.
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The Russia Ukraine Conflict Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter supermike80
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
I don’t share your same opinion that Biden is completely senile.
By your measure things haven’t been normal for awhile I suppose
Shula-holic
Footballguy
One of the things I truly liked about Trump is he at least engaged and attempted to have discussions with Kim, Putin, etc. Its open for debate how successful that was but it at least bought us some time and quiet periods out of the Kim regime if nothing else. But we should be engaging these folks. We don’t have to like them, but the facts are they run those countries.
If this were occurring on Trump’s watch we would be hearing non-stop about his failings. I’m not going to jump on Biden on this. There’s plenty I don’t like that he’s done, or not done. But this situation isn’t one of them. We shouldn’t be involved and we aren’t. However, it’s not beyond reason in my mind that Putin views him as weak and that’s why this is happening now. Let’s hope it stops where it is and Xi doesn’t also get more aggressive with Taiwan.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
This was all for show and PR...there was no substance to any of the results of any of these initiatives.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well...both the guy before him and after have engaged with Putin. And every administration engaged with Kim/NK on talks...but refused to give him the meeting he always wanted...and rightfully so. A far cry from talking glowingly about brutal dictators because they penned a nice letter to him.
When have we not engaged with those countries? We have...
As for how this has been handled...why would we be talking about failings when, thus far, it appears to have been properly handled. You seem to be projecting weakness and that these countries will do something they have not done and its because of Biden being weak...if it doesn't happen, what will then be the excuse?
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
If this were occurring on DJT's watch and he listened to his advisors and was getting these same de-escalated results I'd be applauding him right now.....for the sole reason of listening to his advisors instead of thinking he knew it all and handling it "his" way.
supermike80
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Not sure what you mean here. They progressed further in their nuclear capabilities and shot off more "tests" between 2016 and 2020 than any other period on record. I don't have a problem with our country engaging these countries....leader to leader needs to come with codified, material conditions otherwise all we're doing is giving them propaganda material to further their position in suppressing their people.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Kim completed nine rocket tests/launches a one month record for NK during the month of January. Biden’s response crickets. Kim is on pace for a record year.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
This sounds like spoiled child behavior. Kim got so used to all the attention that he got during the Trump era, that he's now lashing out that he is no longer getting this attention.
The General
Footballguy
The wonderful letters and Don fawning all over Kim was some weird behavior even for Don.
dkp993
Footballguy
Hey even Joe Flacco won the Super Bowl. Supporting cast is overwhelmingly important.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
So to recap:
Russia said they weren’t invading Ukraine
Ukraine said Russia wasn’t invading Ukraine
Russia held military drills in nearby Belarus
Drills ended and Russian troops went home
Biden declares he saved the world
Is this the situation in a nutshell?
Russia said they weren’t invading Ukraine
Ukraine said Russia wasn’t invading Ukraine
Russia held military drills in nearby Belarus
Drills ended and Russian troops went home
Biden declares he saved the world
Is this the situation in a nutshell?
The General
Footballguy
Putin doesn’t want any part of Joe. Misses the old guy who deferred to him at Helsinki and bashed NATO for him.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
You forgot that Putin called and asked what time he should ride across the Ukrainian border without a shirt.
dkp993
Footballguy
Straight out of the Trump victory playbook. Looks like the old dog Biden can learn a new trick.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
The General
Footballguy
If he did nothing you’d be complaining nonstop how he's weak
Hannity’s shtick. I get it.
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https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-696579
Apparently Russian media is saying there was a thwarted terrorist attack in Donbas.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-russia-does-not-want-war-calls-donbass-genocide-2022-02-15/
And Putin is saying there is a genocide going on in Donbas.
Seems like they are building the case for an invasion even though they have no intention of invading.
Apparently Russian media is saying there was a thwarted terrorist attack in Donbas.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-russia-does-not-want-war-calls-donbass-genocide-2022-02-15/
And Putin is saying there is a genocide going on in Donbas.
Seems like they are building the case for an invasion even though they have no intention of invading.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
He had 5 different launches. A couple had multiple rockets. Of course, none of this has anything to do with my comment above. We don't need to be responding to any of that sort of behavior. That's the point.
The Commish
Footballguy
The one thing I give Biden credit for in this whole fiasco is the ability to pull NATO together. With the exception of 9/11, I can't remember a time where all these countries are on the same page like this. Under normal circumstances that would be pretty impressive. It's even moreso given all the bridges that needed to be rebuilt.
The Commish
Footballguy
I mean, we were told this was a rather possible (likely?) thing to happen a week ago.
supermike80
Footballguy
This is a weak take in my opinion. Do you guys really think Europe would stay silent and let Russia roll through because they were mad at Trump? Come in now
timschochet
Footballguy
Not because they were mad at Trump but because Trump’s actions had left NATO in disarray.
I think Putin considered Trump’s behavior with NATO, and Biden’s pullout of Afghanistan, and calculated that the USA was weak and isolationist and that we wouldn’t lift a finger if he invaded Ukraine. Putin miscalculated. Both Biden and the USA are a lot stronger than he thought and, despite Trump’s idiocy, NATO is still still around. Thanks largely to Biden
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
You forgot the part where the administration created a sense of panic in the MSM that the attack was coming any minute and then created scenarios about how exactly it would happen.
Moe.
Footballguy
Interesting line right at the end of the article:
The State Duma presented Putin with a draft appeal to recognize the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics as independent on Tuesday.
This feels kinda lazy on Russia’s part. They’re not even really trying.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I do think Biden's stumbles and gaffes give the perception around the world that his mind isn't right. You may disagree, but for God's sakes how could anyone watch him and not think that? Now, has he handled this situation the same as I'd want him to so far, yeah. I don't know that his image or these thoughts are why Putin chose now, but he did. Do I think it's possible it's because they perceive Biden as weak? Yes.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Why do you think this? The Korean armistice was signed in 1953. We are approaching the 70th anniversary. I don't think there's any evidence our former approach has limited their ability to suppress their people at all.
joffer
Footballguy
pretty easily actually. yes he’s old, and he studders. Doesn’t mean he’s “ not right”
Shula-holic
Footballguy
The stuttering doesn't bother me, he's always done that. However, I think it's more than that. To my untrained eye he's gotten worse over the years with a frequent inability to maintain thoughts. But I'm no doctor and that's my opinion. I take no joy in saying that, I don't hate Joe Biden or have any ill will towards him, that's just my perception.
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joffer
Footballguy
Any 79 year old is going to get worse over the years. not right implies to me he’s unfit and should be removed. I don’t think he’s close to that.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I didn't say he should be removed, I have no idea on that part. I think it's likely his advisors have more sway and influence than they do in most administrations, perhaps Ron Klain.
joffer
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Well you're saying the same thing...Just in a different way. to think that Europe was gonna just let Putin have his way because Trump "destroyed" NATO is just an uninformed and quite silly take.
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Do you think Trump's disdain and verbal abuse of our allies would have helped or hurt this situation?
Biden pulled the allies together and has apparently walked Putin back from invading.
supermike80
Footballguy
Again.....Maybe I wasn't very clear on this so I will say it again. I think whatever Trump did has ZERO effect. To repeat, if you really believe Europe would have just stood by while Putin tried to run over Ukraine because they were mad at Trump is really misguided. Seriously. That's Trump Derangement Syndrome at it's finest
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The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry I wasn't clear....I don't think they are having a "problem" with suppression. That bonfire is raging along just fine. When we go to said bonfire just for publicity and no tangible, meaningful requirements all we're doing is throwing gas on said bonfire.
Well then why have allies? Why are we civil to each other? What's the point if we'll just run around and help each other regardless?
You're mistaken if you think Trump's pathetic behavior wouldn't have impacted how our allies responded to various requests from us. But the Trump derangement adulation is an unexplainable phenomenon.
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
"because they were made at Trump"? no....of course not.
"because they had zero confidence that Trump would have their back, so why subject their countries to something they have no way of knowing how he'd react"....absolutely. That's just leadership 101 basic assumptions. No real conspiracy required
supermike80
Footballguy
Again..Silly...Super silly. Let me see if I understand you. Europe is mad at trump, so while Putin is doing what he does, they wouldn't ask for help? You guys really believe this???"because they were made at Trump"? no....of course not.
"because they had zero confidence that Trump would have their back, so why subject their countries to something they have no way of knowing how he'd react"....absolutely. That's just leadership 101 basic assumptions. No real conspiracy required
Trump exhibits zero qualities of a good leader. He exhibits all the qualities of another kind thought."because they were made at Trump"? no....of course not.
"because they had zero confidence that Trump would have their back, so why subject their countries to something they have no way of knowing how he'd react"....absolutely. That's just leadership 101 basic assumptions. No real conspiracy required
Comish spelled it out but you choose not to listen. Why would our NATO allies have confidence in any ask from the US when we were misguided enough to elect Trump and they've seen firsthand how unprepared and unintelligent he is? Heck, I'd likely do the opposite of what someone like Trump asked me to do.
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supermike80
Footballguy
And as I said That is TDS and absurd. Just beyond absurd. but hey, if you believe that I can't change your opinion. It's silly and wrong, but whatever. Think what you want.
It's just fascinating to me that you guys are so blind in your hatred of Trump you'd really believe they would happily join the Russian empire as long as they didn't need to ask Trump for help. Hilarious.
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He literally said he believed Putin over US intelligence. If you're a European leader, that kind of madness wouldn't give you pause?
The Commish
Footballguy
No....I explained my position. Acknowledge it or don't...doesn't matter to me. That you keep trying to frame it this way after clarification is just trolling
supermike80
Footballguy
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